User talk:Snowball II

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Hello, and welcome to Wikisimpsons! Thank you for taking an interest in our wiki. If you have any troubles, feel free to ask questions on any experienced editors' talk page. Here are a few pages to help out new editors such as most likely yourself: Wikisimpsons' Policies Help pages, your first stop if you need any help Editing help, in case you have questions on how to properly edit articles Please sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~). This will automatically produce your name and the date. Signing your comments is important, as it lets other editors know who has posted which comments. Again, welcome! Solar Dragon (Talk • Contribs.) 18:08, December 8, 2013 (EST)

Conor

The tweet you linked to said that Chris Edgerly was Conor, not Daniel Radcliffe. Al Jean also confirmed this to me in a DM. Also, the book in the episode calls him "Conor", with only one n. Thanks, The Solar Dragon 16:31, April 9, 2018 (EDT)

Again, his name is Conor, not Connor, as you can see here. The Solar Dragon 16:39, April 9, 2018 (EDT)

Mrs. Glick

Hi, why exactly did you change "Alice Glick" to "Mrs. Glick" in multiple places? Her full name is Alice Glick, her page name is Alice Glick. She should be referred to as such. The Solar Dragon 07:41, September 15, 2019 (EDT)

Even at the top of the article is she is generally just referred to as Mrs. Glick and most folks any known her such. Snowball II (talk) 17:28, September 16, 2019 (EDT)

It's still her name so pages should be left like that. And the page title is "Alice Glick". Please do not make any more of these changes. The Solar Dragon 06:20, September 17, 2019 (EDT)

The body of the article is not the same thing as links from other pages i.e. we use "Marge" or "Bart" in the body in the article rather just using full title of the article "Marge Simpson" or "Bart Simpson" at every instance. Snowball II (talk) 17:35, September 17, 2019 (EDT)

Block

"Thank you, come again!" ―Apu Nahasapeemapetilon You have been blocked for a period of 1 week due to disruptive editing. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding your reasons below, and your appeal will be reviewed by the blocking admin. The Solar Dragon 18:07, September 17, 2019 (EDT)

You were warned. Twice. Since you decided to go ahead and change it again, I have blocked you for a week. The Solar Dragon 18:07, September 17, 2019 (EDT)

I just figured stuff like Dr. Hibbert rather than Julius Hibbert or Superintendent Chalmers rather than Gary Chalmers was just a good faith style choice rather than something one gets blocked over. Thinking about it more, it can lead too much confusing and best to stick with the title of the page. It's fine, I wish you remove the block and I won't use "Mrs. Glick" any more in the article. I didn't think it would matter that much and I thought you were only referring to the changes to Reference section of episode articles, but I thought editing the body of the article was fine. Snowball II (talk) 18:50, September 17, 2019 (EDT)

Character statuses

You recently made an incorrect edit to a character status. Please read through Wikisimpsons:Character statuses. It explains that the character is alive in the show, despite the fact that Henry Kissinger‎‎ is deceased in real life. Please do not make this change again otherwise it could result in a block. Thank you, The Solar Dragon 06:55, November 30, 2023 (EST)

Appearances gallery artwork

Hello, please stick with the character's default artwork in appearances galleries. Often, they are only wearing these costumes for a short period in an episode, and it's not representative of the character fully. Plus, it makes trying to find their appearances a lot harder. Thank you, The Solar Dragon 19:35, January 2, 2024 (EST)

I wouldn't totally agree since these appearance pages are unique to each episode and noticed locations sections for episode aren't uniform since they looked different in different episode and a top of costumes are unique to a specific episode which an user would be able to see if he/she check "used on" section of the file. If you 100% with or without me making a case, so be it. The main characters so seeing Lisa in a gymnast's outfit where gymnastics are a major plot element isn't the same as off a background one-off character. Snowball II (talk) 21:10, January 2, 2024 (EST)

Yes, I am 100% on this. A good thing about having the images be uniform across the Appearances galleries is that it allows you to find the appearances a character has made by looking at their image links. Splitting that up across multiple images will mean that some get missed. Plus, keeping uniform across the wiki is always a good thing. Characters will only get different images in Appearances galleries if their appearances are radically different throughout the episode. i.e. Episodes set nearly fully in the future, or completely different artstyles. The Solar Dragon 07:08, January 3, 2024 (EST)

I do appreciate you taking the time and efffort for a through and thought-out response. Again I don't totally agree with everyone of your points and do kind of wish you were flexible and negotiable, but I won't push it if you're 100% solid on it. Snowball II (talk) 15:02, January 3, 2024 (EST)

Stealing First Base characters

Hi, I think I've moved all the characters you marked to be moved. Could you go about fixing up their pages and changing them over to the correct characters please? I'd do so myself but I'm kind of busy. Thanks, The Solar Dragon 14:14, January 18, 2024 (EST)

Senator Payne and moving of articles

Hello, please do not move articles to different names like that, especially when the name you are moving the article to goes against the official material for the show. In future, please bring up all move requests on the article's talk page. I have access to multiple sources for character names so I can check to make sure they are official to the show. Thank you, The Solar Dragon 06:57, February 9, 2024 (EST)

Appearances

Hi, when you add appearances to an individual article, can you also add them to the episode's appearance page too? I noticed you added a lot of appearances to the Volvo article, but didn't add them to the episodes. It helps to make sure the appearances are accurate if they're listed in both places. Thank you, The Solar Dragon 07:53, February 25, 2024 (EST)

Hiya, thank you for adding Cletus' pickup to the episode pages. There were two things that gave me a slight pause. One was just decided to take a break and figured I'd get to it in a bit. The other was the image is specifically Tab Spangler's Volvo which I debated a bit would be the one to put for any and all Volvo vehicles.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

The article already mentioned other examples of Volvos, but the Image was only on the episode it appeared in File:Tab Spangler's Volvo.png and other examples already mentioned weren't mentioned on the actual episode My Sister, My Sitter/Appearances

Plus had the example of the image used on the Mercedes-Benz page in the back of my mind since it's only used in the specific episode is comes from. File:Mercedes-Benz.png Snowball II (talk) 11:32, February 25, 2024 (EST)

It'll be fine to use Tab Spangler's Volvo as it's just an example of one Volvo. So, feel free to use it on other Appearances articles for the Volvo image. Same should go for Mercedes Benz. The Solar Dragon 12:52, February 25, 2024 (EST)

Actually, looking at the notability policy, I'm not sure that the Volvo or Mercedes-Benz pages should exist. They're brands of vehicles, rather than a specific vehicle. And they're not exactly named, and a majority aren't recurring enough for an article. The Solar Dragon 14:27, February 25, 2024 (EST)

Well if you're unsure, I have some ideas to bounce off of if you'd like? Snowball II (talk) 15:04, February 25, 2024 (EST)

Feel free to share those then. Because at the moment, I'm leaning towards deleting the Volvo and Mercedes-Benz articles. The Solar Dragon 16:40, February 25, 2024 (EST)

You're going to do with you think it best, but also no major rush either to come back to it. I'd look over http://www.imcdb.org/movie_96697-The-Simpsons.html might for yourself since people have an interest in it.

Just random thoughts since I'm kind of like parts of it, but it's not without issues either.

Unsure if Cecil Terwilliger's car needs it's own article, but still interesting to know it's a Volvo since they made the effort to make it one. What also confuses it a bit it is a bit of the floating continuity things since Principal Skinner has been pretty consistently shown driving a Volvo, but not always (http://frinkiac.com/caption/S17E11/113989 http://frinkiac.com/caption/S05E09/79345) They have mentioned the car companies, but for sure not often, but logo are very distinctive (particularly on the grills). #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 Add in the research of the people are doing online to determine the make and model of the vehicles. I'd point out that I didn't list off every background incident. I tried to stay to major or even minor characters are shown driving them or the Volvo or the Mercedes-Benz played some part in the plot. Sorry this is just some of my first thoughts haven't thought it through if it's fine as is, can be improved or just removed. Snowball II (talk) 17:26, February 25, 2024 (EST)

I feel that for most cars, it'll be a case of the car being based on a real vehicle, but with some differences and without any mention of the brand usually, because of licensing and advertising etc. As such, they'd probably mostly be parodies of real vehicle brands. Similar to how Mapple is a parody of Apple. However, Apple has also been mentioned within the show. However, we can't know for sure unless it's mentioned in the show. Therefore, the cars would likely be based on Volvo models, but unless stated, they could also be some sort of parody of the model. Unless it's stated what it is in the show, we can't know for sure. It's a complex grey area. I'd say it'll be fine to mention on the references page "X's car is based on a Volvo model" but I don't feel like Volvo should have its own article, because of the reasons I mentioned. The Solar Dragon 17:49, February 25, 2024 (EST)

What's more, I can't seem to find a solid mention of "Volvo" for Tab Spangler's Volvo. Which would also mean that's against the notability policy too. The Solar Dragon 17:51, February 25, 2024 (EST)

I'm not an expert, but I remember reading the reason TV shows don't use branded products within a scene is because of advertising (the show wants the companies to pay for their product to appear on the show). The show don't have the license a brand name or logo, they do it all the time. They named Volvo and Mercedes-Benz and also use their logos.

Dialogue is nice, but it's not the sole requirement. It's shown and there are loads of example where something or someone isn't named aloud, but still has an article based on the visuals. Snowball II (talk) 17:59, February 25, 2024 (EST)

I disagree. The fact is, there are various different parodies of real things within the show. Including a lot of brands. For example, with cars, we have Tissan, a parody of Nissan. Would that make all cars based on Nissan Tissan cars? We can't really say. So, I feel an article for Volvo is unnecessary, we can just list what cars are based on in the References page, and if a vehicle does have an article (i.e. Pink Sedan) we can mention what the vehicle is based on in Behind the Laughter. But having a whole article for a car brand, that the cars listed might not even be made by in-universe, feels wrong to me. The Solar Dragon 18:07, February 25, 2024 (EST)

An example seems like a bit of leap that it now makes it an undisputable universal fact for everything unless said aloud within the episode. We know Volvo exists in the Simpsonsverse so unsure why it would exist in one episode and cease to exist in another episode because it's not in dialogue. Of course the shows has parody products, but I can point to examples of real world products i.e. Dumpster is a real brand which the call out themselves. We come back to this disagreement a lot where if something is 100% implicit, you err towards pretending we knew only what the show 100% tells us (sorry as pretending isn't the right word, but I guess just because tree trunks are purple we don't say it's a tree only it they say). The joke about clouds like the one looking like a crashing school bus or Jedediah Springfield status without a head isn't how clouds work, but doesn't mean the term "cloud" can never be used unless said aloud. Buzz Cola doesn't mean Coca-Cola doesn't exist and they've mentioned Apple even with Mapple and they've mentioned Arnold Schwarzenegger even with Rainier Wolfencastle. Also just because Rainier Wolfencastle exists, doesn't mean every celebrity shown is a similar parody unless named aloud and the wiki has plenty of them. Anyhow acting like unless they say it's a Volvo, it has to be parody is a choice the same as deciding it's just a Volvo. It's a character is drinking a brown soda pop, I can get assuming it's might be a Coke or a Pepsi or Buzz Cola, but I just don't see the big harm is the wiki having Tab Spangler's car being a Volvo was it's clearly a Volvo and no parody of Volvo has ever been established. Snowball II (talk) 18:49, February 25, 2024 (EST)

Tab Spangler's Volvo is something I feel can be mentioned on the references page, that it seems to be based on a Volvo. But it is against the notability policy as it currently is, because it's not really named (a make is not a name). The same will also extend to the Volvo article and Mercedes-Benz article. They can be mentioned on References pages, but I don't think they need their own articles. The Solar Dragon 18:56, February 25, 2024 (EST)

But as tend to happen on Wikis somebody else clearly did believe it was worth an article and I toke the time to add to it. I did the Mercedes-Benz edits awhile ago and again unsure why it's now a violation of policy. Snowball II (talk) 19:08, February 25, 2024 (EST)

For the episode if you'd prefer the make of the car this or that drives goes on the references page rather than appearance page, that makes sense to me. Snowball II (talk) 19:27, February 25, 2024 (EST)

It's not a case of it "now" being in violation of the policy, it's more a case of it slipped through the net and got missed. Hell, I've sometimes edited articles, or even created articles, that I look back on and go "Actually, that isn't notable enough for an article, as per the notability policy". Also, many articles were created well before the most recent notability guidelines were made. And for the fact you took time to add to pages, I'm sorry about that. And I know it can suck to see work you've done get removed or deleted for reasons. But, wikis are also collaborative efforts and sometimes, stuff gets removed or changed. And yeah, they're good to be mentioned under the References page, most likely under Cultural references. The Solar Dragon 19:28, February 25, 2024 (EST)

I get typos and others stuff slipping through the cracks or even reconsidering an article or old edit, but this can't have been that egregious of a violation since made these edits and stood for some time and even earlier today you were fine with them. If it's not a clear-cut violation, I don't see what would be the issue against discussing it towards an understanding. I get you disagree, but that's seems like it's the one and only take to be used. Snowball II (talk) 19:40, February 25, 2024 (EST)

Seems more like a "Trivia" than a "Cultural Reference"? Or maybe "Continuity" i.e. reappearance of Principal Skinner driving a Volvo. Snowball II (talk) 19:43, February 25, 2024 (EST)

I don't check every single edit or article and often I will miss them. As for earlier today, I wasn't even thinking about the notability policy. It was only later when I was thinking back on it, I realized it was against the notability policy. I'm not always thinking about the policies, and often I will have to check them myself to check if something goes against policy or not. As for what section it goes to, brand parodies generally go under Cultural references as brands are part of culture. If a vehicle makes a reappearance, that can go under Continuity. The Solar Dragon 19:45, February 25, 2024 (EST)

Block 2

"Thank you, come again!" ―Apu Nahasapeemapetilon You have been blocked for a period of 1 month due to disruptive editing. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding your reasons below, and your appeal will be reviewed by the blocking admin. The Solar Dragon 12:43, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

You have been pushing back again and again against things I've been telling you. I've been giving you chances because you have been making many good edits. But there's also a lot of edits I need to undo or clean up because they go against the wiki's style guides and policies. Therefore, you have been blocked for a month. The Solar Dragon 12:43, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

Thank you for acknowledging for the first and only time I've made some good edits, but this block feels mean and unfair to me and even just a 24-hour block would have make your point.

I disagree with you, but that's not a crime. I put in real world knowledge you find too much or you don't. Maybe it's all very obvious to you, but even after reading the style guidelines and editing here for some time, I'm still surprised what edits do or don't get reverted or allowed to stand I push back in be bold. Also you get your way in the end in every circumstance. I'm not a mind reader and literally change the guidelines after reverting my edits [8][9]. 99% of the time edits I've made are uncontroversial (and I think helpful) and when you revert something I don't push back 99 times out of 100 and even this time for Colette/Collette was just in the Talk Page. I've tried to incorporate your concerns and when you revert and then try to leave it. Snowball II (talk) 13:08, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

In the end, I'll humbly and apologetically ask taken down to 24-hour block. These edits weren't done of out of malice or vandalism and you've accepted were in good faith even if they were wrong. This Wiki has standard practices not set by a whim and your time and patience aren't (nor shouldn't) be infinite. Snowball II (talk) 13:48, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

I didn't block you to make a point. I blocked you because you've gone against things I've told you repeatedly. I've been head admin and running the content side of this wiki for many years now. As such, I have a feel of what should and shouldn't be on the wiki, how pages are laid out etc. I will admit, some of the policy pages or style guides can be lacking, but that's at least partially because I haven't gotten around to updating them, or plain forgot that they exist. And sometimes, I do miss things. The See also section, I plain forgot to include that in the style guide, but it's something that has been set in that position for years and has always been in that position on pages. And if there's a page that it isn't in that position on, I change the layout if or when I find it. Everything has a set order on pages whether it's documented or not. Unfortunately, a lot of the time it's not. And I'd love to be able to just focus on the policy pages and style guidelines for pages, but they're not really a priority for me. But this has all made me realize, maybe I should make them a priority to stop this sort of thing happening in future. So, for that, I apologize. I dropped the ball there.

I've also made compromises on your edits on occasion. I've left some of the stuff you've written in while removing other stuff. A lot of the time, this is stuff in the Behind the Laughter sections. Yes, these sections are for non-Simpsons related content, but it still has to be relevant to the franchise in some way. We link to Wikipedia pages for things to direct people there if they want to read about it from a non-Simpsons perspective. It's not for Wikisimpsons to go into too much detail about things outside of The Simpsons. Using All Creatures Great and Small as an example, the single sentence summary I used, which was pretty much just taken and altered slightly from Wikipedia's article about it, was enough. Where the title of the book came from had absolutely nothing to do with The Simpsons and therefore didn't need mentioning at all. This is a wiki about The Simpsons and we don't need to go into too much detail about things outside of the franchise.

I try not to be a dictator about the wiki, although I know I can come across like that. I've been working on this wiki for 15 years now, so I understand how things go on articles. And I get that other people might not understand the same way I do. But rather than just undoing my reverts (which is also a breach of policy) it should be brought up on either the article's talk page or my own talk page. Because I don't revert edits without a good reason. Sometimes I explain my reasons in edit summaries, other times I don't. And I should probably be better at actually explaining my reasoning rather than just thinking "it's obvious why this edit is being reverted". Again, that's my fault. And I'll try and be better about that in future.

Some of the things you've taken issue with often include the naming of certain articles. I've been defensive for the naming of some (like Senator Payne and Collette) but I've also moved others or merged articles when you've pointed them out. This is because I have multiple sources of information that I check and weigh up before I make a decision. Not all my sources are 100% accurate, but that's why I use multiple, to cross-reference them to come to a decision. So, if I say an article should be at a certain name, that's because my sources back that up. And they're all official sources too, I don't use IMDb or Wikipedia as sources for things. And this has been one of my biggest issues with some of your edits, because you're being adamant that my sources are just all incorrect.

The reason I blocked you for a month is because I increment each block. And since this is the second time you've been blocked, I jumped it up to a month. However, I'm going to unblock you. I acknowledge that I've made some mistakes in handling things and I could have done so better. So, for that I apologize. I'm just going to ask for you, in future, to bring up issues on the talk pages and understand that if I do undo your edits, 99% of the time there's a good reason I did so. I do and will continue to make mistakes occasionally though. And when those do happen, feel free to call me out on them. I don't know absolutely everything about The Simpsons and there will be times where I'm misremembering something. And sometimes I won't explain myself properly when I make edits or undo edits. Again, if there's confusion about those, bring it up on the talk page so I can explain properly.

And on a last note, please remember to use the preview button because you made ten edits to your talk page before I responded. The Solar Dragon 14:33, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

Using "make a point" wasn't the right word choice for what I trying to convey. I don't think your sourcing are wrong, just there's a conflict. Anyhow I wrote out a big, long response since I haven't totally given up hoping to change your mind on this or this policy, but as you've not unfairly noted me taking up your time, I'll skip it. Snowball II (talk) 15:41, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

Preview button

The preview button is shown by a red oval

Hello, I have noticed you have been making a lot of minor changes to a page in a row. Can you please use the preview button when making lots of changes? This will show you what a page will look like after you have made your changes and will reduce the amount of edits showing up in recent changes. If you continue to make multiple edits without using the preview button, we will force you to preview your changes before you can save. Thank you, The Solar Dragon 12:02, March 15, 2024 (EDT)

Sandboxes

Please don't make changes to someone else's sandbox or "working space" pages. If you have a suggestion for someone's "in progress" article, please drop them a line on their talk page. Thank you. Mythigator (talk) 12:14, March 16, 2024 (EDT)

Okily dokily. Snowball II (talk) 15:30, March 16, 2024 (EDT)

Gay Village

Hi, at what point was this seen written out in the episode? I've tried scanning through it but couldn't see it. I want to know just see if it's officially used in the episode before I move the page. Thanks, The Solar Dragon 20:05, March 21, 2024 (EDT)

I thought it was in the episode proper in the Village Apartments rental listing, but even still used online in [10][11][12] (and also used in this Wiki) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Snowball II (talk • contribs) 20:42, March 21, 2024

I just checked and it doesn't specifically say "Gay Village" on the listing. I was just checking for capitalization purposes, whether it would be "Gay Village" or "Gay village". Since it's never actually referred to that in the episode, nor is it referred to as the "Gay Neighborhood", I will move it to "Gay village". The Solar Dragon 08:04, March 22, 2024 (EDT)

Okily dokily. Make sense like if writing on the city's downtown or the city's outskirts don't start with a capital letter either. Snowball II (talk) 10:18, March 22, 2024 (EDT)

Donna Reed

Just because Homer acted like Donna Reed doesn't mean it should be put under History on her article, or listed as an appearance. It's the same as Homer acing like Fred Flintstone in "Marge vs. the Monorail" not being listed as an appearance for Fred Flintstone. The character didn't appear, nor was even mentioned. Therefore it should belong under Behind the Laughter because Homer is parodying the character. The Solar Dragon 12:34, April 3, 2024 (EDT)

But that's neither true nor remotely consistent while also making the article itself worst. Snowball II (talk)

Did Donna Reed appear or was she mentioned in the scene you were adding under History? The Solar Dragon 13:53, April 3, 2024 (EDT)

Homer is fantasizing about himself as Donna Reed within the episode. Characters fantasizing themselves as other characters or dressing up as this or that other person are mentioned in histories all the time even without direct dialogue or written text. Home wears a devil costume or Lisa dresses up as the Statue of Liberty are not a behind the scenes reference. At the President's Day Play when Ralph shows up and sit is a wheelchair and grim with a cigarette holder between his teeth, nobody mentioned FDR. At the end of the play a model of Mount Rushmore is lowered onto the stage yet never said in dialogue or a sign with Mount Rushmore on it. The Flintstone example isn't apt since it's Homer's own fantasy with his head and the Simpsons watch a lot of TV and Homer repeatedly confusing his past with TV shows.[13] I dislike pretending I don't know what a scene or moment is referring to. Snowball II (talk) 14:18, April 3, 2024 (EDT)

Okay, I've reworded it in a way that I feel makes it more clear that it's a bit more than just Homer acting like Reed. Let me know if you have any issues with the new wording. The Solar Dragon 14:35, April 3, 2024 (EDT)

I think I can still stand by my previous statements although admitting this undermines me, but I have not even seen this episode. Snowball II (talk) 14:40, April 3, 2024 (EDT)

Welcome signs

While the category is a fine idea, I feel that there needs to be some sort of criteria on what a "welcome sign" means. I feel that just a sign with the name of a location isn't a welcome sign, it's just a sign with a name on. A welcome sign should be welcoming, and say "Welcome to location" or "Now entering location" or some other similar phrase. A location with just the name on isn't necessarily a welcome sign, or welcoming, as is the case with, for example, military bases. As for Tapped Out decorations/buildings etc., the same rules for them apply as with other categories, they don't get put into Images - Locations for the same reason as they shouldn't go into Images - Welcome signs. We like to keep the Tapped Out building and decoration images separate from those categories as there will be significant overlap with the images of them from episodes. The Solar Dragon 08:07, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

While adding to location section on episode appearance pages I was just enjoying those little gag under them[14] and thought maybe grouping them together although maybe a list article might have been better option. Unsure on wording so I just looked up how those kind of signs and categorized http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Welcome_signs_in_the_United_States_by_state and reused that naming, Snowball II (talk) 08:42, April 12, 2024 (EDT)

Places signs for places like a major national or state park not within a city or town would seem to fit the criteria. Snowball II (talk) 18:10, April 12, 2024 (EDT)