Difference between revisions of "Wikisimpsons:Pages for deletion/Archive 2"

Latest revision as of 07:21, February 20, 2021

Deletion discussions archive.

Mike's House and Al's Work[edit]

Two very minor locations that are neither specifically named or actually affect the episode. --Cook879 18:13, 18 June 2012 (EDT)

Delete. Al works at the Power Plant anyways. >_> --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 00:17, 19 June 2012 (EDT)

Agreed, delete. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 14:57, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Delete. WebkinzMania 15:49, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Dukans Campaign H.Q.[edit]

Stupid redirect. Totally unneeded. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 13:59, 19 June 2012 (EDT)

It's a redirect, but whatever. Delete. WebkinzMania 15:49, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Delete--Cook879 14:36, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

Garbageman[edit]

One sentence, no images, one appearance... WebkinzMania 15:49, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Just because the article is poor doesn't mean it should be deleted. He was voiced by a guest star so we just need to improve on the article. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 15:55, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Keep. Just needs a little spiffing up. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 17:03, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Keep, just a very crappy written article.--Cook879 14:36, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

Martin's bike[edit]

Just not notable. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 13:06, 22 June 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 16:51, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 16:47, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

Butler[edit]

Aside from the fact that he is a chauffeur not a butler, he is unnamed and non speaking. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 16:51, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Delete. -- WebkinzManiaTalkContributionsEditcount 16:56, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 16:47, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

Category:Original songs[edit]

Delete, Category:Songs have same contest. /AleWi 13:51, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

Keep. There are enough non-parody songs and non-original songs to warrant this category. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 14:01, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

Keep. "That's Amore" and "Hey, Brother, Pour the Wine" are two examples of the many non-original songs in this category.--Cook879 15:49, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

First Ever Sled[edit]

Not notable, conjectural name, no impact on plot etc. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 17:19, 2 July 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 16:47, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

Sunscreen[edit]

Normal product, nothing special. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 15:17, 6 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 21:35, 6 July 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 16:47, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

Potato Chips[edit]

Per the other generic food stuffs. -- cjc 07:23, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Agreed. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 07:32, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 10:21, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Mouth Wash[edit]

Generic article is generic. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 14:56, 12 July 2012 (EDT)

• Propose future examples are speedy deleted. -- cjc 15:05, 12 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 21:45, 12 July 2012 (EDT)

Wooly Bully, Colour My World and I Want a New Drug[edit]

All marked for deletion, due to against policy. However, I am no personally 100% behind the policy, especially with articles like this which are well written and detailed - notably these all occur "in-show" and characters hear it, and so you could argue not background music anyway.--Cook879 16:47, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

The way I interpreted that policy was that background music was music that the characters couldn't actually hear, i.e. it's playing during the scene, but not in the scene. So, therefore it would be considered "out of universe", as compared to music that the characters are physically listening to, which is "in universe". There's my two-cents, anyway. (edit) Regardless of the outcome of this, I think the policy page could be a little more "descriptive" (can't think of a better word), so that this issue doesn't come up in the future. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 20:24, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

To me, background music is music that the characters don't sing, i.e. radios etc. I therefore say delete to these articles. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 01:20, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

See music production for the six types of music on the show. To me, source and "Broadway-style" music is in-universe, whereas underscore, scourse, montages and format cues are out-universe. Anyway I think any music article is just as noticeable as the many minor articles we have.--Cook879 05:53, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Well, this sort of thing should really be brought up elsewhere. Right now, they are against policy so should be deleted. If we want to give these songs articles, a discussion should be opened up and they can be restored if the discussion is passed. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 07:34, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Did "I Want a New Drug" have any lyrics or was it all instrumental? Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 04:13, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

It had lyrics. It was basically playing the song accompanied with the music video. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 12:40, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

If that's the case, the lyrics need to be added into the article and it will be notable for an article, in accordance with Wikisimpsons:Notability. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 13:27, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

Ok, I can do that. I won't be able to get to it until sunday, though. And, not to beat a dead horse, but "Wooly Bully" and Colour My World" did also have lyrics. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 23:40, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

Yeah, but those two songs weren't actually seen being played on the show, they were only heard and were not seen being played by characters but were merely songs played by the jukebox. The Solar Dragon 03:49, 14 July 2012 (EDT)

Moons Over Springfield[edit]

To me, this is not notable. It was only mentioned in Twitter and didn't we agree not to make articles on these? Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 13:44, 16 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 22:01, 17 July 2012 (EDT)

Apple Sauce[edit]

Generic product. ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 05:03, 17 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 22:01, 17 July 2012 (EDT)

Guard dog[edit]

Unnotable character. Not named and doesn't play that big a part in the episode. ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 18:10, 17 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 22:01, 17 July 2012 (EDT)

America's Most Armed and Dangerous office[edit]

Unnamed, minor location. Does not deserve an article. Only one room seen. No impact on episode. The Solar Dragon 07:27, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 11:15, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Next Exit[edit]

Not even a real name, it means the next exit, the road is not named Next Exit. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 07:28, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 11:15, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree as well. ~ Phinbart (talk • contribs) 11:27, 21 July 2012 (EDT)

Knitting grandmother[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking character. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 15:48, 26 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 13:48, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

I have seen some one time characters being deleted here. I believe this place is about to provide as much info about the Simpsons as possible. I suggest to create one page dedicated to these one timers, instead of giving them their own, and delete them later. A rule would be to have an image, and a direct reference link, with in the image description. Characters like the evil grandma can just be described with in the game's page. This is just a suggestion to help with any kind of improvements.EximiusMx 04:39, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

What you are basically proposing is making an article to list each and every character in The Simpsons, even if they are unnotable. This page would not only be ridiculously long but would also have sections like "Passerby 1" to "Passerby 50" etc. There are many, many background characters in each episode and to make an article to list every single one would be impractical and just stupid. Also, I highly doubt anyone would want to see a list of all background and minor characters. The only exceptions we have to this rule are those recurring background characters from Springfield Elementary and we should not have any page listing others. ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 06:46, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Evil grandma[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking character. ☆The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)}☆ 06:45, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

Doesn't she say something like "come give Grandma a kiss"? I thought she talked. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 13:48, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Karl's Apartment[edit]

Unnamed, minor location. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 04:02, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

The info about this apartment could be included in Karl's page. Lets say, a way to describe the place he lives, or his life style. The page as it's own doesn't work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EximiusMx (talk • contribs) 04:39, 2 August 2012

--Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Ungrateful grandson[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking character. Minor. No emphasis placed on him. etc. The Solar Dragon 14:07, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Nachos[edit]

Generic foodstuffs. ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 16:44, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 17:55, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Giant spider[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking character that doesn't play an important role. ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 16:05, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

Once again, instead of having it's own page, there could be a page just related to creatures. We know there are many with in the universe. Just single pages don't seem appropriate for something with little description.EximiusMx 04:39, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Grilled Cheese owner[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking character. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 16:25, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Square One[edit]

Quests should not be notable enough for their own articles. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 14:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

But it is a nice detailed article. --Cook879 15:50, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

If we have one quest article, we have to have them all. It just isn't notable and it only needs a mention on the quests page. It's not like these quests need walkthroughs either. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 15:53, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

I was only going to create "Square One", the first quest, anyway. I wasn't going to create all the other quest category articles. ~ Phinbart (talk • contribs) 04:40, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

What I'm saying is that if we have one quest article, we have to have them all. We can't just have one. The Solar Dragon 06:17, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Creepy family's house[edit]

Doesn't play a major part, nor is it named. ☆The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)}☆ 16:23, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 17:03, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 18:46, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

Black and white dog[edit]

Unimportant character, only a few seconds of time on screen. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 16:34, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 18:46, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

--Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 18:53, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

Angry Nerds[edit]

Not a game at all, was a one time thing/pun that was only used for that once. Article will always be a stub and it is just not notable. The Solar Dragon 15:45, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Delete: It was just a joke. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 23:06, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Larry Snotter Book Law[edit]

Nick added the speedy delete template with "Pointless page. The law is never even named/discussed/or anything, it's not noteworthy. Category:Law could also be deleted."--Cook879 17:10, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

Agreed.--Cook879 17:10, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

Agreed. ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 17:46, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

Keep, we must just do a better article about it. /AleWi 15:47, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Template:Kai Taschner[edit]

No other voice actor for any other language has this template and I think it would just be too complicated to do this sort of thing for all of them. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 17:38, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:51, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Freaky Family House[edit]

Same reason that the Creepy family house was deleted. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 17:47, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:51, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

News reporter (Some Enchanted Evening)[edit]

Voice only, which we don't make articles for unless they were notable voice-only appearances. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 17:56, 25 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:51, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

TV Magazine[edit]

This is like a references page, really. And we only make reference pages if there are five or more references either way. This is the first so it should not have an article. The Solar Dragon 14:51, 26 August 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 15:51, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Norman Rockwell-esque family[edit]

All the members of the family are non-speaking, iirc. ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 17:21, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 17:23, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Player 1 and Player 2[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking characters. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 17:24, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 17:23, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Research Center[edit]

Unnamed, unimportant minor location where only seen for a minute at most. The Solar Dragon 17:28, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 17:23, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Jebediah actor[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking minor character. ☆The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)}☆ 17:29, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 17:23, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Drummer[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking character. The Solar Dragon 17:38, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 17:23, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Guitarist[edit]

Unnamed character and the article is wrong - I'm pretty sure he doesn't actually speak. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 17:39, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 17:23, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Coffee Shop (Life on the Fast Lane)[edit]

It's part of the Bowlarama, not its own location. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 08:38, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

--Cook879 17:23, 19 September 2012 (EDT)

Hotel[edit]

Full sign isn't seen so it may not be the full name. Only briefly seen. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 11:28, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

--Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 18:08, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

Screaming woman[edit]

A scream doesn't count as speaking therefore is a non-speaking, unnamed character. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 16:37, 3 October 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 00:39, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Eurythmics[edit]

The band is not credit, should we keep it? /AleWi 08:54, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

We have articles for the two members but if the actual band was not credited, the page should go. ☆The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)}☆ 09:28, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

No credit, no connection = no article. Though they wrote the song together and for their band there would be no mention of the band itself on the song's copyright information, so they fail the connection as well.--Cook879 18:24, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Albert King[edit]

He has no actual credit, and has no relation to the version The Simpsons did.--Cook879 13:21, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Well, if he wasn't credited, we should delete the article. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 18:03, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 11:03, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

Nuclear waste[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking, unnotable. ☆The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)}☆ 17:45, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 11:03, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

Ref[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking, unnotable. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 17:52, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 11:03, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

Uranium 235 rods[edit]

Unnamed, non-speaking, unnotable. The Solar Dragon 17:58, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 11:03, 27 October 2012 (EDT)

ATM bot[edit]

Not actually named that, non-speaking. Not notable. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 16:55, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

Agree --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 10:03, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Holiday Resort[edit]

Unnamed location, and we never actually see any sort of resort, just a beach. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 21:52, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Agreed. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 15:34, 8 November 2012 (EST)

Transformer bots[edit]

Microwave bot, Kitchen bots, Coffee Machine bot, Toaster bot, Plane bot,Airport stair bot, Squishee Machine bot, Hot Dog Oven bot and Nacho bot

All unnamed, non-speaking characters (if any of these did actually speak, remove the delete template and mention it here but I'm pretty sure that none of these actually spoke). The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 15:41, 8 November 2012 (EST)

Just watched the episode about a week ago, and I don't remember any of them talking, so agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 23:11, 8 November 2012 (EST)

Mrs. Claus[edit]

Homer was referring to Marge as Mrs. Claus, which is obvious by the speech and history. He was referring to Patty and Selma by the sisters. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 16:14, 8 November 2012 (EST)

She is mentioned "for real" in the comic story Springfield's Letters to Santa, so the Roasting on an Open Fire reference could just be replaced with the comic one. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 23:11, 8 November 2012 (EST)

Okay then, feel free to do that instead then. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 04:23, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Keep, she is mentioned./AleWi 05:47, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Angel waitress[edit]

She currently goes against notability policy as she is unnamed and non-speaking. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 10:43, 11 November 2012 (EST)

Agreed. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 02:26, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Funeral Parlor[edit]

Unnamed location, the outside wasn't seen. Fairly minor. ☆The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)}☆ 17:54, 18 November 2012 (EST)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 10:17, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Long Island Iced Teas[edit]

There was no XFL team called the Long Island Iced Teas - Homer was trying to think of an answer and said it, leading into the gay bar joke.--Cook879 19:09, 25 November 2012 (EST)

Agree. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 01:12, 26 November 2012 (EST)

Max Klinger[edit]

He's just mentioned in passing in one line of one episode. Doesn't seem epescially notable to me. The Klinger line certainly deserves a mention in the episode's References tab, but a character article? I don't think so. -- Mythigator 20:49, 11 November 2012 (EST)

I always disagree with articles like this so I agree with the deletion. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 02:26, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Keep, he is mentioned./AleWi 05:47, 12 November 2012 (EST)

He is ONLY mentioned. Not worth keeping. -- Mythigator 09:38, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Wikisimpsons:Notability - (Named mentioned characters should have an article.) /AleWi 09:55, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I want to get rid of that part of the policy though and all mentioned only characters should only have an article if a large emphasis is put on them. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 12:28, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Disagree. He goes with the policy, which I have no issues with. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 11:06, 14 November 2012 (EST)

I have opened up a discussion about changing the policy. I would like it if everyone would read what I have to say first before adding to the discussion in case it changes your mind. It's here. Solar Dragon ^{(Talk • Contribs.)} 16:53, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Withdrawn per the outcome of our notability discussion and after fleshing out the article. -- Mythigator 09:52, 5 December 2012 (EST)

Mary Lou Retton[edit]

Same reason as Max Klinger. -- Mythigator 15:34, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Keep, this is a Simpsons wiki. /AleWi 10:58, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Withdrawn per the outcome of our notability discussion and after fleshing out the article. -- Mythigator 09:52, 5 December 2012 (EST)

Arnold Horshack[edit]

Same reason as Klinger and Mary Lou. There's no in-universe information about him except the one in-passing mention. A Wikipedia link (most likely just to Welcome Back, Kotter) would be fine; there's no need for him to have his own article here. -- Mythigator 03:57, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Keep, people in the series should have an article even if they is one in-passing mention. /AleWi

• Note - I think it would make sense to postpone those three PFDs until the notability changes are discussed at that blog. -- cjc 11:44, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Withdrawn per the outcome of our notability discussion and after fleshing out the article. -- Mythigator 09:52, 5 December 2012 (EST)

Klinger, Horshack and Mary Lou[edit]

Considering the outcome of our recent discussion about the notability policy, I'm willing to back off on these three deletion proposals. I think that in order to give these articles a little more notability, it would be worth adding a real-life tidbit or two (most likely under "Behind the Laughter") to explain why they're notable or famous (similar to the J. P. Patches article). At least we'll end up with articles that aren't quite so "stubbish". I'm willing to take on the job of fleshing out this particular trio of articles, and any similar ones I notice. Is that OK by everyone? -- Mythigator 08:55, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I'm totally fine with it. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 09:37, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Go for it. I've been trying to flesh out where I can, like I've done today with Cat Stevens and Prince Olaf of Norway.--Cook879 12:54, 2 December 2012 (EST)

Done for those three. They do look better now, as do some other related articles. -- Mythigator 09:52, 5 December 2012 (EST)

Can't get enough of that wonderful Duff[edit]

I just don't think that this is notable enough for an article. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 16:29, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Agree. There's also not really much that could be done to expand the article. It could just as easily be a section in the Duff Beer article. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 19:20, 27 November 2012 (EST)

9789 asteroid[edit]

Unnotable. The Solar Dragon ^{(Talk - Contribs.)} 14:38, 28 November 2012 (EST)

Agree. --Nick97 ^{(talk ~ contribs)} 09:38, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Agreed. -- Mythigator 11:20, 30 November 2012 (EST)