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spelling
Is there really still a question? Snowball II (talk) 20:25, February 8, 2024 (EST)
- The Simpsons is not the same as the movie Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. They are different. And when the subtitles and Simpsons World give his name as Payne, not Paine, that is what we go with as that is what the show calls him. The Solar Dragon 06:53, February 9, 2024 (EST)
- I wouldn't push back this much except unlike a lot of other movie references or parodies, "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" is so central to the episode and the episode itself so explicit about the real-world movie (to the point of literally having Jimmy Stewart's daughter). Unsure if you ever watched it, but it just looks weird having not being Senator Paine as much as this wiki had Clarke Kent and if the subtitles had Clarke Kent, this wouldn't even be an issue. I get Senator Paine isn't a major part of pop culture and this is very, very minor, but if the remake was "Mr. Smyth Goes To Washington" I'd buy this being deliberate, but a scenario is that it's just a misspelling which wouldn't be very usual since Paine and Payne sound the same or two they go to such effort to literally designing the Sen. Paine character to look like Claud Rains and say the same lines while copying his voice, but changed the spelling for no real reason and only did it for outside the episode. Snowball II (talk) 08:34, February 9, 2024 (EST)
- The fact of the matter is that multiple official sources spell his name as "Payne" for The Simpsons. Disney+ subtitles, Simpsons World book, Simpsons World website script. It doesn't matter if there's a character in the real film called "Paine". In The Simpsons, he's called "Payne". And all my sources confirm this. The Solar Dragon 10:03, February 9, 2024 (EST)
- It's not as if these sources are infallible [1] and even this wiki contradicts it. I'm relucent to give examples since it might just sidetrack into debating them, but an example is Gladys Gurney where is clearly called Miss Bouvier in dialogue of the episode and the official guide book sourcing have it as the same yet also clearly Marge's mom's sister so I get why it's Gurney on this wiki by using real-knowledge of how sisters have the same last name or real world knowledge of the differences between maiden names and married names. I feel like I could have found a more apt example, but it's just the one that first occurred to me. Disney+ was Roger Meyers as Myers and not treated as cannon although I also get there are other sources for Meyers spelling. Still works as an example of not just automatically deferring to subtitles.
- The episode gags only really makes sense using real-world knowledge of the real Mr. Smith Goes To Washington I can get real world and the episodes can be fuzzy and the completely different, but I'm not trying to insert some major contrition here. Honestly checked and Payne is the more popular spelling and guessing nobody double check this for a one-line character who is fictional even with in the Simpsonsverse. I read on old post of yours about the time and effort for no pay it takes for you to keep this wiki going while not getting much appreciation so made a mental note to not whine about no backs-on-the-back for my own rinky-dink edits, but I did take the pain (I think that's a pun) to look into this stuff within this article only as a way to explain why I'm still pushing back on this Payne spelling. Snowball II (talk) 11:46, February 9, 2024 (EST)
- I am aware that Simpsons World can have errors sometimes. And it's for this reason that I use multiple sources to check names if I can. For Senator Payne, I have access to the Disney+ subtitles, Simpsons World book, and the archived Simpsons World episode scripts. Only other source there would be for the name are the DVD subtitles. And unfortunately I don't have the season 11 DVD on hand to check those. In the end, all three sources I checked have given his name as "Payne". I also checked Elliott when you moved his page. And I noticed a discrepancy between the Simpsons World script and the Disney+ subtitles, with the script giving the name Elliot, and the subtitles giving the name Elliott. And I concluded that the page should be at Elliott due to the subtitles and the original character in E.T. having his name spelled that way. If all the sources I checked had it spelled Elliot, I would have moved the page to that.
- I don't just move pages to names because I feel like it, I check all the Simpsons sources I can to make a decision if someone thinks a page is at the wrong name. And if my sources tell me it should be spelled a certain way, I go for that way. The Solar Dragon 15:28, February 9, 2024 (EST)
- I wish I could think of a funnily apt Simpsons reference,[2] but the one that comes to mind that scene of following the GPS directions [3]
- I'm also not just doing it because I feel like it, but because it's accurate to the movie they went out of their way to be implicit as anyone can it's the Jimmy Stewart "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" plus better for getting hits from internet search.Snowball II (talk) 16:07, February 9, 2024 (EST)
- I guessing I'd be more deafferentation here if spelling of a proper name if the character unique to the Simpsons world (i.e. Gwenn's name spelled differently), but it's not.Snowball II (talk) 16:17, February 9, 2024 (EST)
The person who fell down isn't you when you first created the article since as you already mentioned you toke the time and effort to check for a spelling. If anyone fell down it's person who wrote out the transcription and didn't check with the movie's spelling and even then I shouldn't nor wouldn't impugn that person as that person had bigger things to do and just went with the most common spelling or knew somebody with the last name Payne and just took the spelling for granted or so, SO other reasons that are more likely than actually knowing Paine is spelling in the real Jimmy Stewart movie and then deliberately changing it for no real plausible reason. If it was an original made-up character to The Simpsons (even one clearly based on a real person or character from another work of fiction) I wouldn't push back so much (i.e. using Adriatica Vel Johnson and not VelJohnson), but that's not the case here since they made it clear multiple times in the episode it's the real-world Mr. Smith Goes to Washington rather than something like the gag of "totally original creation" of Shary Bobbins or if the spelling was shown within the episode proper with PAINE or PAYNE being engraved on s desk or on the wall next to an office, but it's only stuff like Disney+ CC which can and have been incorrect on much bigger stuff. Also if the worry of accepting using Senator Paine for the title means it will encourage me to start prolonged discussions on every minor edit and undo, please be assured it won't. Trying to think of similar thing... Truckstop waitress Gwenn is spelled Gwen in the CC, but the name tag in the episode has Gwenn although the name tag is a bit blurry, but I think keeping it as Gwenn is fine or change to Gwen and it's also fine. I'd just defer to you and/or broader community consensus. This taking you up your time which I do reluctantly over Payne/Paine is that it is a pretty small and unique set of circumstances that to use the Paine spelling doesn't make any changes to your overall guidelines, I guess if you'd like to understand the border standard I'm thinking of, it would be Clark Kent-type one where the use of that fictional character in both the real world and the Simpsonsverse is very much based off the real comic books creation of Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel so in the very rare (if ever) chance of a minor contradiction (i.e. Disney+ CC having Clarke) go to the person who created the thing unless the show is more explicit. Of course The Simpsons often make big and minor change other people's works of fiction within the parodies, but usually seems more purposeful and in serve of gag then this. Snowball II (talk) 09:25, February 12, 2024 (EST)
