Editing Blog:Changes to the naming policy

A major discussion occurred during a recent editor meeting about changing the naming policy. This discussion was decided to be discussed off IRC. You can find the key points below. Find a full transcript [[Wikisimpsons:Editor meetings/February 18th 2012|here]].--[[User:Cook879|Cook879]] 18:22, 18 February 2012 (EST)

== Key points ==
<pre>
[21:24] <RandomNO> I think we should change our policy, though.
[21:24] <RandomNO> I think all pages should have the real first-last name.
[21:24] <@Cook879> I think most common names trump real names
[21:27] <RandomNO> To: The real first and last name (if known) should be the page name, with any middle names on the page 
and they're most common name (if one) stated clearly on the page.
[21:28] <@Solar_Dragon> Most commonly known by name
[21:28] <@Solar_Dragon> Over everything
[21:30] <RandomNO> "The real first and last name (if known) should be the page name, with any middle names on the page and 
they're most common name (if one) stated clearly on the page." My idea of policy.
[21:31] <Underfaker> If the more common name is a generic name (even if the character has a full real name) the article 
should be named by that (Comic Book Guy and Cat Lady, not Jeff Albertson and Eleanor Abernathy)
[21:32] <@Cook879> I agree with Underfaker
[21:32] <Underfaker> If the common name is a shortened real name, then by that (Bart Simpson, Ned Flanders, 
not Bartholemew Jojo Simpson and Nedward Flanders)
</pre>

=== Capitalization ===
=== Characters ===
==== Willie ====
<pre>
[21:23] <RandomNO> Right, Willie MacDougal. Goes against policy.
[21:23] <@Solar_Dragon> No it doesn't
[21:23] <@Solar_Dragon> It goes with policy
[21:23] <RandomNO> Most common names.
[21:24] <RandomNO> Groundskeeper Willie, it should be.
[21:24] <@Solar_Dragon> He is known as Willie most
[21:25] <RandomNO> Groundskeeper Willie is "never" called Willie MacDougal.
[21:26] <@Solar_Dragon> And Willie is mainly called by his first name
[21:26] <@Solar_Dragon> Groundskeeper is a title
[21:26] <@Solar_Dragon> Not his first name
[21:28] <AleWi> Bart Simpson is called just that not Bartholomew JoJo Simpson
</pre>

==== Wiseguy ====
<pre>
[21:24] <Underfaker> Most common names, but we refer to Wiseguy as Raphael -_-
[21:24] <Underfaker> Then again, neither are that common
[21:24] <@Solar_Dragon> He is never called wiseguy
[21:26] <Underfaker> If we ant to get technical: He's only called Raphael in that one episode, and although his name in 
the script is always just whatever he is (Cab Driver, Delivery Man, etc.), in the Simpsons episode guide, they always refer
to him as Wiseguy (and the writers do as well in the commentaries), so so do I
[21:27] <@Solar_Dragon> If that's the case Underfaker, then we should move his article
</pre>

==== Eleanor Abernathy ====
<pre>
[21:24] <AleWi> http://simpsonswiki.net/wiki/Eleanor_Abernathy
[21:25] <@Solar_Dragon> And she is never called crazy cat lady
[21:28] <@Solar_Dragon> Crazy cat lady is called Eleanor Abernathy several times
[21:29] <@Solar_Dragon> Including by the episode guide
[21:32] <@Solar_Dragon> But Eleanor Abernathy is never called crazy cat lady any more
[21:32] <@Solar_Dragon> Her proper name has been mentioned elsewhere and in the episode guide

</pre>

==== Yes Guy ====
<pre>
[21:25] <AleWi> Yes Guy is called in the series for That Jerk That Goes Ye-e-e-es and in books for Frank Nelson-Type.
</pre>

==== Comic Book Guy ====
<pre>
[21:25] <@Solar_Dragon> While Comic Book Guy is always called that
[21:26] <AleWi> Comic Book Guy have a real name
[21:26] <@Solar_Dragon> CBG is always known as that
[21:26] <Phinbart> Comic Book Guy should be kept and not moved to Jeff Albertson
</pre>


== Discussion ==
We should stick with Wikipedia naming conventions, most common name over real name, hence why I said that [[Rafael]] should be moved to Wiseguy. Willie is Willie's most common name and Groundskeeper is a title, which is why we don't use that in the article name. MacDougal is his last name though and it can go with his first name with no problems in the article title. <span style="font-family:Chiller"><big><big>[[User:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:red">The</span> <span style="color:red">Solar</span> <span style="color:red">Dragon</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] - [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|Contribs.]])</sup></big></big></span> 18:00, 19 February 2012 (EST)
:You do have a point on Willie, but his last name has also been given as MacMoran. My brain is a bit fuzzy right now, it is midnight. {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 19:11, 19 February 2012 (EST)
:You could put it as (for CBG): "Well, Comic Book Guy is a title, so remove, that, what's left? Nothing? Right. Real names replace titles, so umm... Jeff Albertson!" {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 19:14, 19 February 2012 (EST)
:"Comic book guy" isn't a {{W|Title}}. ;) --[[User:Nick97|'''<font color=darkorange>Nick97</font>''']] <sup>([[User talk:Nick97|<font color=peach>'''talk'''</font>]] ~ [[Special:Contributions/Nick97|<font color=turquoise>'''contribs'''</font>]])</sup>  00:57, 20 February 2012 (EST) 
::What we have is good. If someone search for "Yes Guy" it will redirect to his real name? [[User:FatHomer|<b><span style="color: teal">FatHomer</span></b>]]<sup>[[User talk:FatHomer|Talk]]</sup> 10:17, 20 February 2012 (EST)

=== Sideshow Bob ===
Similar to the IRC discussions above, Sideshow Bob is currently at [[Bob Terwilliger, Jr.]] I feel it should be moved to Sideshow Bob, which he is always called. <span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 2px gold; font-family:Elephant">[[User:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:red">Solar</span> <span style="color:green">Dragon</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:black">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:white">'''•'''</span> [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|<span style="color:blue">Contribs.</span>]])</sup></span> 16:46, 20 February 2012 (EST)
:I disagree,  if it redirects from sideshow bob to bob terwilliger it should be kept as it is. [[User:FatHomer|<b><span style="color: teal">FatHomer</span></b>]]<sup>[[User talk:FatHomer|Talk]]</sup> 17:04, 20 February 2012 (EST)
::Umm... Solar, "Sideshow" is a nickname, so surname is Terwilliger and the Jr. part could be removed. Just like Willie. {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 14:22, 25 February 2012 (EST)
:::But, we go by most common names. Sideshow Bob has only been referred to as Terwilliger a couple of times. It's never: "Ahh! Bob Terwilliger!" It's "Ahh! Sideshow Bob!". Willie is often referred to as just "Willie", hence the last name being added to it. <span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 2px black">[[User:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:green">The</span>]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:red">Solar</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|<span style="color:blue">Dragon</span>]]</span> 15:09, 25 February 2012 (EST)
::::"Sideshow" is Bob's job though, like Willie. He is sometimes called Bob, so add the surname. Bob Terwilliger. {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 18:05, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:::::It's staying as Bob Terwilliger, Jr., then. And it doen't go against the policy. {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 04:08, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

== We go against the policy for half the pages, anyway ==
Yes, what I said, some of our pages are actually different from Wikipedia anyway. The only example I can remember right now, is [[Seymour Skinner]], on Wikipedia it's {{w|Principal Skinner}}. {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 05:26, 25 March 2012 (EDT)
:What's wrong with just having the common name used (Side Show Bob, Groundskeeper Willie, Principal Skinner) with the real names as redirects? Fact is, whether you type the real name or the common name in the search box, you should be able to reach the article. [[User:Digifiend|Digifiend]] 21:06, 15 April 2012 (EDT)
::Skinner is often called Seymour. Willie is often called by just his first name, Willie. Sideshow Bob though, I agree with moving. <span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 2px black">[[User:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:green">The</span>]] [[User talk:Solar Dragon|<span style="color:red">Solar</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Solar Dragon|<span style="color:blue">Dragon</span>]]</span> 01:16, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
:::He's often called Bob when he's been seen recently. "Sideshow" isn't part of his real name. Like [[Melvin Van Horne]]. {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 04:12, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

[[Category:Blogs]]

==We should go with what the books say==
Let's face it: The show contradicts itself many many times. It's silly to go with a name used in a single episode over a name used many times (particularily in cases like Groundskeeper Willie, where multiple names have been used). Why not go with what the books say? If its good enough to be used in one of the Beyond Forever books, why shouldn't it be good enough for us? That would settle all of the above arguments, and it gives us an official source to go on, as opposed to the argument of "it's the most commonly used name".

I'd also like someone to explain why we shouldn't use titles in names. If it's the most commonly used name, we should use it. We're not wikipedia. -- [[User:Brian McClure|Brian McClure]] 10:32, 1 May 2012 (EDT)
:Uh, I'm a bit confused by your statement, but I think I'm with you. Hi, by the way. ;) {{User:Randomno/sig2}} 10:39, 1 May 2012 (EDT)